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Spell packet use question
Moderators: Lucas, dave, Curt R, davie, Taylor
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Finnik
Mon Oct 02 2017, 10:06a.m.
Registered Member #213
Joined: Thu Mar 22 2007, 05:36p.m.

Posts: 1230
First off, to clarify a rule on shatter weapon. When using the skill shatter weapon, the user must strike a weapon with his/her weapon. When using the spell shatter weapon, the caster must strike the opener with a spell packet and declare what weapon he/she is shattering. If not it defaults to the right hand.

That being said, I already know the answer to my next question, but I have to ask because it came up this past event. When casting an offensive spell, such as shatter weapon, is the caster allowed to keep the spell packet in hand, and while in combat cast the spell and physically grab his/her opponents weapon to shatter it?
I know when casting spells such as healing spells or armor spells, a caster may keep the spell packet in hand and touch the target as a defensive or "buff" spell.
And on occasion a caster may shake someone's had (with spell packet in hand) and cast or use skills such as detect immunities or charm, but these are most often no combat or pre combat

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Hex
Mon Oct 02 2017, 10:26a.m.
Registered Member #49
Joined: Sun Feb 11 2007, 06:13p.m.

Posts: 664
Ha, if you grab the weapon you'd just take some damage, on a swing, right? Possibly out of game damage too.

and then there is this:
"Unwilling Targets must be hit with a thrown
spell packet to be affected by a Spell." (ch.7 spells).

thrown it is then, mister nimble fingers.
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Hex
Mon Oct 02 2017, 10:28a.m.
Registered Member #49
Joined: Sun Feb 11 2007, 06:13p.m.

Posts: 664
Although if you juggled and made simultaneous contact with a packet (thrown) on thrower, you'd somehow shatter and juggle. Monk's of old call this "The shuggle"
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Maxx
Mon Oct 02 2017, 03:54p.m.
Registered Member #74
Joined: Sun Feb 11 2007, 06:13p.m.

Posts: 907
Yeah, I actually re-read the rules last night on this, because of this event... And like Khaine said, it's right in there. Unwilling = thrown packet.

[ Edited Mon Oct 02 2017, 03:56p.m. ]
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Auberon
Mon Oct 02 2017, 05:00p.m.
Registered Member #836
Joined: Mon Mar 17 2008, 09:32a.m.

Posts: 736
Agreed
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Maxx
Fri Oct 06 2017, 06:28p.m.
Registered Member #74
Joined: Sun Feb 11 2007, 06:13p.m.

Posts: 907
Actually I'd push for this to be actually clarified a bit more in the rulebook. It should cover things like Charisma, Detect Disguise, Detect Enchantments, etc... I mean basically anything someone would be unwilling to submit to and I see TONS of players not throwing packets for those skills/spells.
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Lucas
Fri Oct 06 2017, 07:41p.m.

Registered Member #1
Joined: Sat Dec 09 2006, 11:54p.m.

Posts: 2874
Not sure of the exact situation of the event, but a spell packet is always required for offensive spells to take effect.

The intent of the rule is that any offensive spell requires a spell packet to come into contact with the target in order for the spell to take effect.

If the caster grabs a weapon instead, it does not take effect.

If the caster grabs the target instead, it does not take effect.

If the caster has the spell packet in between/pinched between his fingers and places the hand on the target after casting, the spell WOULD take effect because a spell packet came into contact with the target at the completion of the spell.

If a Spell does not specifically say 'offensive spell' in the description, it is still considered offensive if the target is unwilling. Therefore, to force a 'neutral' spell to take effect, a spell packet should be used to ensure the spell takes effect regardless of the willingness of the target.

Finally, for Beneficial Spells, the target can still refuse the spell, making it offensive in nature. The only exception to the above is if the spell takes a Spell Slot. A target is always in full control of their spell slots, so even if the target is hit by a spell packet, the target can still refuse spells like Armor, Azeron's, etc.


If for some reason a target wishes to allow an offensive spell to take effect without the use of a spell packet for plot or roleplaying reasons, that's entirely the TARGET'S choice, even though in all actuality, the spell SHOULDN'T take effect by way of the rules.
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Finnik
Sun Oct 08 2017, 06:38p.m.
Registered Member #213
Joined: Thu Mar 22 2007, 05:36p.m.

Posts: 1230
Aside from clarification needed, the big issue I had was a player using the skill shatter weapon and having a spell packet in hand, and grabbing Npc weapons to shatter them in the middle of combat. It is purely a safety issue at this point for me.
The little things like shaking someone’s hand to charm them or detect immunities is not as important, but still needs addressed as far as being allowed in our game. Common sense only goes so far so everything needs spelled out black and white.
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Penny
Mon Oct 09 2017, 01:45p.m.
Registered Member #118
Joined: Wed Mar 28 2007, 08:48a.m.

Posts: 591
Finnik wrote ...

Aside from clarification needed, the big issue I had was a player using the skill shatter weapon and having a spell packet in hand, and grabbing Npc weapons to shatter them in the middle of combat. It is purely a safety issue at this point for me.
The little things like shaking someone’s hand to charm them or detect immunities is not as important, but still needs addressed as far as being allowed in our game. Common sense only goes so far so everything needs spelled out black and white.


Quite, idiots shouldn't be grabbing for weapons in combat.
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Ikkadian (Pat)
Wed Oct 11 2017, 10:36a.m.
Registered Member #134
Joined: Sun Feb 11 2007, 06:13p.m.

Posts: 278
I second the thought of a safety issue with grabbing at weapons in combat to shatter.

Fingers will be the things shattering, not weapons.
If out of combat, same as charming and healing, meh, in combat, not a good idea.
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